Tag: 20mm

Categories
1/72 scale figures 20/25/28mm figures metal miniatures wargaming

Scaling the Heights

James Fisher has a fascinating blog on Napoleonics. James asked me about Warrior Miniatures. Now I will say at this point Warrior Miniatures and I go back to the mid 1970’s, however my association has only ever been as a paying customer. So any effusive comments about them is simply reflecting my enthusiasm for their products.

So James wondered about plastics and the metals from Warrior Miniatures which I would add, shown here, are from their advertised 25mm range.

Now I have chosen to show the figures randomly arranged. Previously I have posted with some attempt to show exact height difference. Yet I think that ultimately it is the opinion that matters not the maths. So do they look ok?

First up the plastics – L to R Hat Russian Militia, Waterloo1815 Austrian 1859 Artillery and then Strelets 1877 Russian Artillery. Note thin strelets bases probably make between 1-2 mm height difference. The austrians have been on short rations while the green russians look rather too well fed……….The blue strelets are slightly shorter and as they are furtherest from the camera this is enhanced. unless you game with all troops in one neat row view exactly side on then that comparison is false. So my slightly layered approach is more suited to judging if figures will “mix well”.
L-R Hat Russian Militia; Strelets Russian 1877 Artillery then Strelets ACW Union in attack converted with Hat stove pipe hats and finally Hat Napoleonic Austrian Landwehr
L-R strelets 1877 russians; converted strelets attacking union ACW infantry, Hat austrian landwehr and far right Waterloo1815 Austrian 1859 infantry, again thin strelets bases and they being shorter yet squatter mean they could be easily 2mm shorter. I think it will be fine.
Warrior Napoleonic 25mm range L-R irregular spanish, then a sole British Napoleonic Light Infantryman BN10 I think and finally spanish line troops (these are the standard 4 poses you get with Warrior along with a firing pose. To me they are active and uncomplicated – great for gaming pieces – not so good if you are producing perfect rembrandts
Warrior Napoleonics SN8, SN6, SN9, SN5 irregular spanish infantry
Warrior Napoleonics Spanish SN5; British Light Infantry BN10 – with shoulder pads!; Spanish Line Infantry SN1 and SN4
Warrior 25mm Napoleonics – 4 of the 5 standard poses – firing pose not shown
warrior and waterloo 1815 figures interposed
Warrior and Waterloo1815 figures interposed
Warrior and converted Hat figures interposed (conversion from kepi to stove pipe has added almost 2mm to top of figure)
Warrior and Hat Landwehr interposed
Warrior and Strelets 1877 russians interposed
Warrior and Russian Militia interposed

Just for fun here are some other figure comparisons – I think hinds and caliver books still run these “retro” minifig/hinchliffe lines. I have posted elsewhere the gross sculpture change Greenwood & Ball did between their Garrison Normans and Vikings. I think the bigger more detailed Vikings shown here sunk without trace – while the older G&B figures were rerun for a time into the 2000’s?

1970 era Hinchliffe persian, Greenwood and Ball Garrison Viking, Minifig ECW, Hinchliffe Assyrian and Minifig 7YW french musketeer – minifigs tended to be shorter and fatter
1970’s metals interposed with strelets russians
1970’s metals interposed with Austrain Landwehr Hat figures
1970’s metals interposed with Russian Militia Hat figures
1970’s metals interposed with strelets ACW conversions
1970’s metals interposed with Waterloo1815 Austrian 1859 infantry

Here is another oddity – again a short life production from Minifigs

a persian horseman for the Cyrus the Great era who dwarfs a standard 1970’s minifig horse which was all that was offered then! The figures were completely oversizing the existing ranges when they came out. again I think they sank without trace
I quite liked the figure at the time – but they never got beyond my by then favoured black undercoat and some block painting
magnificant helmet comb……….with skirts – they deserve painting one day……….

Now I have dug out a later 25mm 1700 grenadier – I think its a foundry chap with practically no base.

base starts at 10cm
eyes at 28mm and grenadier cap tops out at 34mm
so how does he match up?
Warrior examples with two 25/28mm figures – the chap on the left is more 25mm but still above 25mm foot to eye.
Bulk is one issue – warrior are campaign figures so half starved whereas most 28mm figures are obviously garrison based and well fed
warrior napoleonics alongside minifigs 7YW musketeer and 25/28mm grenadier
warrior napoleonics alongside hinchliffe assyrian and 25/28mm grenadier
warrior napoleonics alongside hinchliffe persian and 25/28mm grenadier
warrior napoleonics alongside Greenwood and Ball Garrison viking and 25/28mm grenadier. I actually think the vikings cut the mustard in the 25/28mm sector but 45 years too early!
warrior napoleonics alongside minifigs ECW and 25/28mm grenadier

Now some finished and based figures to compare against

Warrior Napoleonics and minifig austrian 7YW very very fat figures – the frei corps figure I hated even painted as it turns out and still don’t like even today. Yet they have done good service on the gaming table.
Warrior Napoleonics and Hinchliffe Bavarians who match well for campaign slightness while height is fine in my view
Warrior Napoleonics and Zvezda 1/72 Great Northern War Russian Infantry in some inexplicable uniform from the mythical world of Fauxterre of course. With thinner bases the Zvezda figures are physique wise taller. Zvezda have produced some significant variations in their historical ranges which puts certain figures in the 25/28mm category
ALL Warrior Napoleonics and their french counterparts with painting 45 years apart! clearly there is a very stiff breeze blowing……
Warrior Napoleonics and Tradition 25mm Russian Guard. Slender style matches and as guardsmen they are just a bit taller to eye level.
Warrior Napoleonics and early minifig french napoleonic line infantry

To sum up, when it comes to height, I have become ever more tolerant and actually it is anatomy which jarrs my view. This is why I struggle with Perry figures – they are just so perfect. Which shows you just can’t please some people.

Some beautiful plastic 28mm Perrys from my stalled Wars of the Roses project with a metal tumbling dice norman (1/72) thrown in

Finally a book which started my wargaming in earnest and is a celebration of fantasy gaming – I kid you not!

This books celebrates fantasy gaming

I leave you with this image from that book – published in 1967 – when it really probably was bad form not to have the correct facings or turnback colours etc. Lawford and Young said “play fantasy” and in the game photos they showed that scale was not a big issue. These look like 30mm figures rubbing shoulders with 45mm figures?????

The lancers smallness is offset by their horse size while the bearskin wearer looks almost 20th century parade dress with a decididly 18th century chap next to him…. who cares….the game was a cracker.

Above all if it looks right to you then it is fine – play* away.

*tournament players will not be so lucky methinks.

Categories
metal miniatures

Garrison Vikings and Normans

Having got the 1/72 strelets Normans going, I decided to search out my old 20/25mm metal figures from long ago. The idea was to see whether they could be used alongside my plastics.

Specifically I was looking for some small Garrisons Normans. These were bought in the late 1970’s. At the time it was Garrisons new 25mm Viking’s which caught my eye. I bought the Normans at the same time all on impulse. They were actually for dungeons and dragons gaming as well as skirmish gaming. Big battles were in theory Macedonia versus Persia although the armies were never completed.

Garrison Vikings painted plus their Normans bought together in the late 1970’s

So it just happened that the Garrison Normans were shorter than their new Viking mates. I think this was the moment when 20mm, 1/72 and 25mm were going their separate ways. Well 20 mm had already stayed where it was while 1/72 and 25mm just about lived with each other yet 25mm was getting taller. But in these photos you can see the height, bulk and style difference within the same makers existing ranges. There is nothing new under sun – least of all scale creep!

The norman figures came with loose weapons and the design seemed to lend itself to less flash.
The vikings were more open although the Norman spearman was far less contrived yet still a classic stance.
The vikings did have one weakness – they were quite two dimensional – good as they rush forward but again probably designed to help the casting

For my money the garrison Vikings were up there with Citadel castings. Top notch on detail. And probably heading towards the few well painted skirmish figures collection or D&D idea.

Spot the citadel knight and yes mounted vikings – just what you need for D&D – our games ranged over the countryside fairly early on!
I really like the citadel horse, less so the Garrison one
As you can see I had primer confusion going on. Actually I painted my horses in artists gouche or washed out enamels over white. I used black for the predominantly armoured soldiers.
These have made it to a painting stick a mere 40 years late! I might even finish them although sadly the vikings will just not match up with the strelets plastics. I might do better with the normans.

The normans though were from the mid seventies figure style – a good wargame figure for army games.

ok so I can’t explain the soldiers being in different primer styles!
These chaps will make it into a unit as giants amongst their strelets cousins
ok these two axemen look classic 1970’s – slight bodies with large heads. And whats that monster on the right – yes its a Lamming Norman – but thats another story.
I really will have to sort out the priming………….

As it happened the Vikings never made the D&D games while the Normans were parked after undercoating. My wargaming days ended – well for about 15 years.

When I returned in the mid 1990’s it was all DBA, acrylics and 15mm.

Categories
basing

Do bases matter that much?

Do bases matter that much when it comes to miniatures used in wargaming? By current standards they clearly do with plenty of trade offerings available and a wealth of DIY advice online.


Also the preference for elements without individual figure removal permits more imagination to be applied around a base. Perhaps the exception is skirmish gaming but even here you have the option of sabot bases providing the individual figure movement while retaining the convenience of the larger element base which can still be given varying levels of decoration.


My basing journey has been pretty basic. Back in the dim and distant past I painted desert or green paint onto cardboard bases. I still have them and they work after a fashion. The figures are 25mm. They look a bit tired though.


I think this figure is a citadel adventurer from the 1970’s when my painting hand was patient and my eyes still worked! note the ageing gloss varnish.

Then I started a 15mm phase and actually paid for painting including basing. The quality was good but somehow they did not grow on me. They look accurate but……

15mm Essex Byzantines professionally painted with matt finish and understated basing!

I did some of my own and I was even less happy!

And then I caught the plastic fantastic bug and returned to simple painted bases for some 1/72 scale figures.

Zvezda Russian Cavalry cruise past some positively ancient 20mm minifig french napoleonics and giant 25mm tradition russians

In the middle of this phase I moved into 28mm figures and thought they needed something extra. As it happened despite all the wealth of offerings and advice in all the various magazines and books I had collected, I stumbled across the humble warhammer guide in one of their rulebooks – maybe shieldwall – where they recommended simply gritting the bases, basecoating and drybrushing once. Somewhere I found a suggestion to use budgie grit. I tried it and painted it up, except no dry brush, but added some static grass and…… I was still underwhelmed. There is no pleasing some people.

Perrys 28mm Continental Burgundian Pike on DBA bases

I then had another surge of plain painted bases when I reworked more of my old 25mm metals.

You can see them next to the Zvezda Russians above – Minifigs French circa 1972? and Tradition Russians from the mid 1970’s. The bases they replaced were very dark green painted airfix box card – the figures have been transformed in my view, although unbelievably garish – they cheer me up!


And then I decided to do some mediterranean normans. Coincidentally I had watched both British cycling, Le Tour and La Vuelta races and the penny dropped. All my scenic basing had generally used dark green/dark brown earth (or grey brown for 15mm) colours – and I had not recognised why I liked the bright green bases beyond their simplicity. British cyclists rode through dark earth countryside with bright greens but La Vuelta cyclists went through fantastically bright coloured soils of many hues and even with brighter green shrubs and trees on top. (well except in the picos mountains in the north).

So I got my paints out and started experimenting – and so I have now found what I want for my Normans. Well until the butterfly lands on the next flower…..

In my next post I will share the results.