Tag: strelets normans

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miniatures painting normans in the south wargaming

First Normans in the South Cavalry

These are my first Hat “el cid” 1/72 figures I have painted. Now given the period is pitched as 11th/12th century some of the figures have flat top helmets which mark the start of the great helm era. So my fix as I wanted my figures to back fit into early 11th century was to get some heads from my strelets normans and do a swop. They look ok to me.
I did two Impetus bases and chose my own shield designs which dominate these figures. The horse colours are again coat d’arms which I have quickly become happy with. I suppose the cloaks might seem unusual for early 11th century but I think they work as long as they don’t have heraldic symbols
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I used the shield design on the cover of ospreys armies of medieval italian wars, nice work by Mr Rava.
I also get a command unit for the 12 figures you get in a Hat set. These guys were given a shield design based upon one from the osprey guide italian medieval armies 1000-1300. The design shown was apparently the d’hautevilles – a very large family of warriors who were involved in the Norman takeover of southern italy.
I quite liked the design shown on the cover of this osprey so gave a version of it to my command

To round things off I based the figures for 15mm impetus! 80mm wide – a compromise I really like. I used my current favoured 3 layer base painting over budgie grit (warhammer idea) and finished this time with foliage from gaugemaster/noch for railway modelling.

I am pleased with the result.

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metal miniatures normans in the south

Metallic and Plastic Infantry for my Normans in the South

Having reviewed my thoughts on horsemen for my Normans in the South project I am going to take a quick look at infantry. Did you spot the SHQ 20mm in the lead photo?

For my command bases I plan to use Tumbling Dice Miniatures command packs which provide both mounted and foot options. These foot are respectively 2 normans to the left and 2 anglo saxons to the right.
here are a strelets norman at left and strelets anglo saxon to the right. The plastic and metal foot match well I think.
These are the tallest strelets anglo saxons I could find and the match between plastic and metal is again fine. Note their breadth is to frontface, so both products are thinner as you look along the line.
1970’s Garrison viking to left and Citadel Crusader to the right are ostensibly classic 25mm figures. They make the 1/72 scale Tumbling Dice guys look a bit small.
1970’s Lamming bigheaded anglo saxon on the left and norman on the right. Oh dear what was happening in the 1970’s!
The guy at left is an SHQ 20mm saracen archer. I picked these up at Newbury or Reading shows when I was after some newline figures in the flesh which turned out to be the wrong size for me. SHQ were there and I took some of their crusades range – really nice figures.The middle grey/red normans/saxons show that even within strelets there is a height and bulk variation – which I like
The SHQ archer is just that smidgen smaller than the TD norman but both seem less bulky and shorter than the strelets norman. I think once painted and based these minor differences in height/bulk will simply improve the look of the bases if anything
2010’s Perry burgundians (ironically plastic) show the morphing of 25mm to 28mm and beyond.

At least tumbling dice and SHQ are still offering metals in the traditional scales of 20/25mm and 1/72. And they carry good detail, have realistic posing and are not too bulky. I may mix in some command foot with strelets figures on some of my fighting bases.

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metal miniatures

Normans in the South using 1/72 metallics

Without drifting too much into the issue of scale in wargaming, this post covers my solution regarding mixing metallics and plastics for my Normans in the South project.

So the lead in photo shows horsemen because this is where the most pronounced differences tend to show up.

left to right we have

Strelets 1/72 Norman cavalry

Tumbling Dice 1/72 Norman and Saxon cavalry (command figures!)

Citadel 25mm Mongol cavalry

Citadel 25mm Saracen cavalry

Lamming 25mm Norman Cavalry

Greenwood & Ball (Garrison) 25mm Viking Cavalry

Lancashire Games 25mm Malburian Cavalry

Typical BIG 28mm cavalry (ok he gets a base as well to make the point)

It is also worth noting the base thicknesses in these photos.

the small saracen then the big viking even bigger malburian and rather small saxon
1970’s citadel mongol and saracen plus Garrison viking show how the horse can influence size
The Tumbling Dice Norman horse could almost get by with the Lamming Norman yet the rider size especially the head suggests not. The Mongol horse is compatibale with the TD Norman horse but again the bulk of the figure suggests they will look wrong together
Things look slightly better head on for the cavalry

What I have found is that in the raw you notice height, bulk and head size. These then affect how you see the figures. Once painted and based the differences seem to be less pronounced.

I plan to use all these somehow!

The last shot shows – SHQ 20mm saracen; strelets 1/72 norman; Hatt 1/72 ElCid cavalry; Tumbling Dice 1/72 norman and lastly another Hatt 1/72 Hun.

Bases are similar thickness so no adjustment needed or to be exploited.

OK last point – my solution.

Using some maths – 12 inches or a foot being 304.8mm for my purposes. Now assuming someone 6 foot high you get the following in real height of 1828.8 mm; at 1:87 (HO) = 21mm; 1:76 (OO) = 24mm; 1:72=25mm; 1:65=28mm and 1:56=32mm (fractions ignored)

So marrying 20mm (1/87) and 25mm (1/72) figures should be tricky although apparently less than 25 to 28mm.

But here is the rub research by a top university shows that the average height of people living in england changed as follows.

167cm pre roman; 170cm roman; less during the dark ages (no figure given because it was dark!) 172cm circa 1066 and 173cm by the 1100’s. Then it drops until recovering to 173-174cm during the period 1400 to 1650. Heights then declined to less than 169cm by the 1800’s! by 1970 we were averaging 177cm.

So that means for a 1/72 warrior he could a 23mm celt; 23.6mm legionaire; 24 mm norman; or a 23mm british redcoat again in the 1800’s. In short averages throw up millimetre differences so actual variations in height will be even greater. So in 1/72 a 21mm (4foot 11inches) high figure next to a 24mm (5foot 11inches) high figure is possible. Add to that variations in helmet shape and size and freedom beckons.

Finally it really comes down to the figures you like, I like the SHQ Saracens, I like the tumbling dice norman and saxon commands and I like the strelets norman and saxons (yes with hands the size of heads!)

so my solution has to be : I will take some notice of scale, maybe more about bulk than height, and paint the figures I like. I can always squint at the jarring mismatches when they do happen.

Happy Painting & Wargaming.

postscript – scale creep was always with us and good enough in “charge or how to play wargames” anyway. Are those “half round lancers on ponies?”

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normans in the south

First Strelets 1/72 Normans are complete

So these first two bases of Norman cavalry have their slightly arid ground cover and bit of green vegetation to liven things up. The base style comes from Impetus ideas about using the greater space to create more of a diorama look instead of the serried ranks style. It works for these Normans I think.
A nice variety of weaponry and also other equipment means these chaps can also become Carolingian and Ottonians
A nominal couched lance is provided although the helmet is a puzzle. All coat d’arms horse colours are on show
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normans in the south

Norman Cavalry arrive

So after that quick intermission for some Saxons, more of them in another post, I am back on the horsemen of the dark ages (ok the back end) – the much vaunted Normans. Well you will not get too many couched lances here as strelets 1/72 norman cavalry are a mixed bag and actually lend themselves to Frankish armies generally.

Some were primed with pva which cracked so they like their comrades are in vallejo grey primer followed by blacking out the metallics and then some coat d’arms horse colours which having only recently been discovered have proven their value to me already.
I found the vallejo grey to be a good base for these cavalry and the coat d’arms horse colours give a mottled coverage
I tend to have quite a few horses with black stockings – more coat d’arms horse colours on show
on the left some PVA cracking overpainted but even so you can see the strelets figures still have some reasonable detail
The horseman on the left corner shown in previous photos is now complete, varnished and based, justing waiting a final ground highlight plus some vegetation
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normans in the south

Progress on Normans and some Saxons

I have started my Normans in the South project by painting up some Strelets figures. These are a bit chunky but on the whole a likeable set of figures. I used the figures from the big Stamford Bridge set and the mini sets for Normans

i have opted for an arid south mediterranean look rather than a dark earthy northern europe one
in slightly different light the ground does not look quite like a desert!
so a few archers and now a few spearmen – i have opted for a more open look with the shieldwall not formed
I quite like some of the before battle poses strelets have done although figures do vary in size. I am not looking for the regimented look anyway.
I am quite happy with the look including the vegetation. the bases are all 80mm x 60mm and I shall use them for either AMW, DBA or Impetus games amongst others.
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basing

Basing Normans in the South

Having explained my latest approach to basing I should say that my wargaming choices are very modest. In fact the whole plastic figure thing was aimed at “keep it simple”. And that goes for painting and finishing – simple acrylics mainly block painting and gloss varnish. my figures are intended to be handled and mostly viewed at 3 feet or 1 metre away.

Even my Wars of the Roses 28mm figures have received such treatment although I did some flesh/clothing washes here and there. And they felt a bit questionable – “was the effort worth it?” well thats more about my painting skills/impatience I think and not the technique being worthwhile.

And when it comes to plastic I seem to have moved to the point  where a bad Plastic Soldier Review will encourage me to buy – maybe a paint job can rescue a poor figure. The question is can my painting rescue the figure or actually make it worse? Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder.

And I have found to my eye that a base I like significantly enhances my figures – when looked at on the table at about 3 feet of course.

So actually close ups on screen are probably not that helpful in some cases. Anyway here goes.

Strelets 1/72 Normans from a mixture of their boxed range at about 12 inches or 300mm

Essentially I based the figures on 80mm x 60mm laser cut MDF from pendraken miniatures, daubed on pva glue, emersed in a tray of budgie grit, shaken and set aside to dry. A day later, inverted to shake off the last loose material, it was out with the paints.

the budgie grit tray – the grain mix works even for 20mm figures

Then base paint. Now this base is the result of several attempts to get the right colour. I could say at this point I spent hours rerunning the La Vuelta vids poring over the helicopter shots for the right ground look but I would of course be fibbing or maybe not………

trials…….

I found I could get some wacky colour outcomes and actually the ones I thought would be too bright I decided would look better for a mediteranean location.

I discovered an old revell acrylic pot of “rust” was the best base colour (need to source an alternative as I don’t know anyone who stocks revell acrylics now given the dominance of vallejo and citadel).

And the ochre and then either ivory or white highlight came from B&Q and Johnstones sample pots. And then some final decoration.

I finished the base off with some greenery taking a cue from La Vuelta again and using bright green foliage. Lots of railway model suppliers provide a range of foliage plants.

And that wraps it up for now. I think the extra steps taken here are worthwhile and enhance the figures. I plan to do all my mediterranean medievals this way. Next problem is getting the table top to match.

Hope to see you soon.